You know Wanderer I can see the "get you hooked while your young" My youngest son has been offered a green and gold card from AMEX and I have nothing but positive comments when it comes to AMEX even with the AF. Joeyman, you are already on your way to having a positive, long term relationship with them also.

One good thing about the charge card is it forces you to pay off your debt within 30 days so you have to always think twice about the purchase. Sometimes I think that young people should start with a charge card to develop discipline and responsibility with credit so if they should apply for a credit card that they would continue to think " I have 30 days to pay this purchase off" vs rolling over the debt, emergencies excluded.

The "warm fuzzies" if you will. Many people on this site really go after the original American Express Cards when there really are better cards and interest rates out there...

You could say I'm one of those people... So far I am very happy with my Blue Cash, I only use that card for purchases I can pay in full. As a backup, I've got my credit union visa with a 7.99% fixed APR (and it's a prime card). I do have this fascination with American Express. Yup yup....

Remember, American Express is a company that aims at the elite and wealthy so carrying and using their cards carrys a mystique of importance that maybe can't be measured in dollars and cents. Like Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. I have had all the cards and for me it came down to dollars and cents. When you are young, American Express needs to hook you so the loyalty is built in early (great strategy).

When I was young the benefits of access to certain airport lounges and having people eyeing my card for prestige was more important and less quantifiable than how the benefits worked. The "warm fuzzies" if you will. Many people on this site really go after the original American Express Cards when there really are better cards and interest rates out there...

For today, I have a Co-branded HSBC American Express Card with a $10K limit and 7.9% Apr. Doesn't get much better than that except, they award me 1.25 points for every dollar spent and they do NOT reduce my redemption like many cards do. They give me full value!

My bone of contention is that HSBC USA sold their Credit Card Unit to Capital One (where I have had five cards with limits in excess of $10K) but Capital One would NOT grow with me so I closed all the accounts. Where to go now?

Checked spending ability with AMEX charge card and now its up to $31K. Also Wanderer wanted to say "thanks" for your input. Understand the Risk model scenario Wanderer but have to ask another question, now as you know AMEX wants you to pay off your balance in 30 days with a Charge Card and they also have a good idea of your annual salary and what you currently owe to other lenders / creditors, when is the "line of credit" finally enough ? Honestly, their is no way I could come up with $31K in a billing cycle to pay off that kind of approval

You sure do bring up a tough question. I am with you, I couldn't pay $31K in one month (nor would I want to). As to what are they doing (or thinking)? I have wondered that since I got my first Gold AX Card back in 1973. Never could get any proprietary information from them on this. AX has always been very careful about their risk assessment formulas and keeping them secret. I am convinced they change with the economy and our personal abilities to pay. That is all I know for all the years I had their cards. Assume other cards work similar although not the same. Had a First National Bank of Wilmington Gold Master Card with a $12K revolve a line and they wanted a minimum payment based on their terms and conditions for $12K plus all amounts approved over the $12K and that was my monthly payment. Today my USAA World Mastercard now has a "no-preset" limit (reported to the bureau as a "flexible spending" card). Hmm... have to be careful about not hitting the max as that will affect cb scores!!!

read your post kdb030609 and in my opinion, for the Preferred Gold Card, the only time you "make out like a bandit" is when you spend $30K + annually. With the 15K points awarded to you after that much expenditure your $175 annual fee is only $25 considering the 15K points = $150. Anything below $30K and you still have to realize the AF. As for the Platinum, if you travel on a regular basis, then I see your point, otherwise the $450 AF is steep. Now I don't know if AMEX rewards bonus points for the Green Card after a certain expenditure amount but the $95 AF isn't that hard to swallow.

As far as BOA, I think they are much more aware of the risk they are willing to deal with pertaining to their current customers with a good credit history with the bank. I would use my Visa Signature card KDB306096 at lunch, come back from lunch and transfer the amount charged to my card from one of my BOA accounts. Used to have $40K+ limit on my cards that was cut in half because of the credit card act. BOA's explanation: You had all this credit and used less than $500 at any given time, why should we give you this type of credit limit knowing you could charge both your cards up and be unable to pay them off. I now have half the limit I used to and spend even less than the $500 limit and still practice paying off charges as I incur them so my risk to the bank is minimal and sure as I'm writing this they would decline me a CLI. Yet in still I spend $30k + with AMEX and I can go out and by a Benz with this card no questions asked.

...This is most likely the primary reason why BOA is so conservative (stingy) with CL's and the lack of increases. From a lender's point of view, this type of person is nearly maxing their CC out every month, which lowers a person's CS.

However, AMEX is (more often than not) due in full at the end of each billing cycle. In my experience, the two cards are viewed somewhat differently from a lending perspective. There are pros and cons to both types of CC accounts (annual "membership" fees vs. Points/rewards, as well as spending ability/capacity).

Also, there is a big fat caveat to the Flexible Spending accounts (aka "no preset limit")

My experienc with "no pre-set" spending limits equals you pay the normal minimum payment as set forth in the cardholder's agreement based on the total amount charged against your revolve a line plus all amounts approved over the revolve a line (flexible spending limit). I am not aware of any credit card that does it different. Now, as to charge cards, yeah... you have to pay the entire amount in 30 to 60 days depending on which charge card you have (example the AX Plum Card has a different time frame).

...This is most likely the primary reason why BOA is so conservative (stingy) with CL's and the lack of increases. From a lender's point of view, this type of person is nearly maxing their CC out every month, which lowers a person's CS.

However, AMEX is (more often than not) due in full at the end of each billing cycle. In my experience, the two cards are viewed somewhat differently from a lending perspective. There are pros and cons to both types of CC accounts (annual "membership" fees vs. Points/rewards, as well as spending ability/capacity).

Also, there is a big fat caveat to the Flexible Spending accounts (aka "no preset limit")

I think you missed my point PhynanciallySavvy ! I was mearly talking about maximizing your rewards ! If you're able to get a lot of use out of your AMEX charge card. The rewards you would gain by upgrading the card would outweigh the annual fee ! It goes without saying that whatever you buy with a charge card. You better make sure you can pay in full at the end of the billing cycle ! I know how an AMEX charge card works ! I had Gold business card back in the mid nineties !
As for B of A who knows what they'll do next now that they've decided to not charge a debit fee. To use your debit card for purchases. As far as CLI's with B of A in my experience since the big banking meltdown. They do give them you just have to ask. Although they've also been known to cut limits after asking for a CLI. I had that happen to me once. I called them and talked to credit analyst and had it immediately restored to the previous CL ! On average though my experience with B of A has been great. I've done business with them off and on since they were NCNB before Nations Bank before they took they're Bank of America name after they merged.

Checked spending ability with AMEX charge card and now its up to $31K. Also Wanderer wanted to say "thanks" for your input. Understand the Risk model scenario Wanderer but have to ask another question, now as you know AMEX wants you to pay off your balance in 30 days with a Charge Card and they also have a good idea of your annual salary and what you currently owe to other lenders / creditors, when is the "line of credit" finally enough ? Honestly, their is no way I could come up with $31K in a billing cycle to pay off that kind of approval : !

Well if you were using the maximum spending ability on your account every month and paying it off every month. It would be a waste to not maximize the rewards you would receive by upgrading to different card. Also any annual fee would be of no concern because the rewards would far outweigh it.

...This is most likely the primary reason why BOA is so conservative (stingy) with CL's and the lack of increases. From a lender's point of view, this type of person is nearly maxing their CC out every month, which lowers a person's CS.

However, AMEX is (more often than not) due in full at the end of each billing cycle. In my experience, the two cards are viewed somewhat differently from a lending perspective. There are pros and cons to both types of CC accounts (annual "membership" fees vs. Points/rewards, as well as spending ability/capacity).

Also, there is a big fat caveat to the Flexible Spending accounts (aka "no preset limit"): At the close of the billing cycle in which the cardholder(s) exceeded their original credit line amount, the ENTIRE balance is due in full by the following payment due date.

I am convinced that BOA has tightened the reigns of lending since they agreed to pay $410M in their most recent class action lawsuit, which is currently pending restitution payments.

However, they haven't wasted a minute or a means because, since the settlement amount was announced, they have begun charging new and existing customers $5 a month to use the piece of plastic (Visa debit card) linked to their checking accounts.

I couldn't be happier to NOT be a BOA customer anymore; yet, I'm both surprised and disappointed that - with all the fees just to have a checking account at their bank - several of my immediate family members continue to give BOA their business. (And money.)

Here's my question Wanderer, why would AMEX feel so comfortable to extend you such a high line of credit in these economical times and BOA, the largest bank in the country be so stingy wih a CLI ? Are their clauses within the Credit Card Act that doesn't apply to AMEX or this is just a business choice ?

Thing is Wanderer although the annual fee is $ 175, if you spend $30K a year they give you 15K points so in essence the annual fee is reduced to $25. If AMEX were accepted at more places it would be a no brainer !

Your question on "why" is a good one. Twenty years ago it would have been easier to answer but, with all the automated systems of the day they can soft inquiry the credit bureau and say he has no debt, income is good and give the ok and the next charge there is debt uncomfortable now and deny. I had a Platinum American Express Business Charge Card and had a limit of $500. Go figure (note debt was high at the time). One more thing over the years... American Express has charged the merchants a higher discount rate than Visa, Mastercard or Discover so there have been merchants who would not sign up. Also, American Express is selective in their mechant base and as such you have less availability. My first charge card was an American Express Gold Card issued in collaboration with a line of credit from a bank back to 1973. Other than technology, many of the comments that post to FG applied to AX back in the '70's. AX does not seem interested in being everywhere... heard the same concerns thirty years ago from card holders of the time. Good products but... Today my cards are co-branded AX cards with points of 1.25 for every dollar spent and they redeem at full value not some tiered deal where you really loose value like many of the cards really do!

In reference to Bank of America, you are really dealing with their credit card arm of FIA Card Services. ColoNative used to go off on them. Two card issuers may use similar data from the CB's but their credit risk models gave different weight to the various parts of the credit scoring system along with their own internal uniquenesses. Likely most card issuers use their version of scoring models. Note, the financial state of the issuer and their view of the global world will also have play into what they are doing with cardholders new and old. Bank of America was and continues to simmer in its past and present in many areas of the global financial world. Earlier this year there was speculation on what future Bank America had... anotherwords survival. Doubt they will go away however, adjustments in their risk tolerance models may be a factor. Try this, in 1999 my MBNA America/Bank America Platinum Visa Bank Card had a credit line of $57,500 and I was in a start-up business with $18K of income, so go figure with near perfect credit over twenty-five years.

Here's my question Wanderer, why would AMEX feel so comfortable to extend you such a high line of credit in these economical times and BOA, the largest bank in the country be so stingy wih a CLI ? Are their clauses within the Credit Card Act that doesn't apply to AMEX or this is just a business choice ?

Thing is Wanderer although the annual fee is $ 175, if you spend $30K a year they give you 15K points so in essence the annual fee is reduced to $25. If AMEX were accepted at more places it would be a no brainer !

It seems the longer you are a AMEX user and you have a "stellar" relationship with them they want to increase your spending ability with their charge cards. Checked my spending ability and they will now approve a $27K purchase.

Thing is if this continues, why would anyone want to upgrade from Green to Gold / Gold to Platinum ? I know the perks are different and become more exclusive but if this doesn't matter to you, then the ideal thing is just get a green card, continue to be a "non risk" as far as keeping a low balance or paying off charges as you accure them and it seems that you stay in their good graces.

This is amazing!!! GADS! Why would you upgrade cards unless you needed the higher level benefits. American Express still lives up to it's motto: "... don't leave home without it...".

It seems the longer you are a AMEX user and you have a "stellar" relationship with them they want to increase your spending ability with their charge cards. Checked my spending ability and they will now approve a $27K purchase.

Thing is if this continues, why would anyone want to upgrade from Green to Gold / Gold to Platinum ? I know the perks are different and become more exclusive but if this doesn't matter to you, then the ideal thing is just get a green card, continue to be a "non risk" as far as keeping a low balance or paying off charges as you accure them and it seems that you stay in their good graces.

Well if you were using the maximum spending ability on your account every month and paying it off every month. It would be a waste to not maximize the rewards you would receive by upgrading to different card. Also any annual fee would be of no concern because the rewards would far outweigh it.

It seems the longer you are a AMEX user and you have a "stellar" relationship with them they want to increase your spending ability with their charge cards. Checked my spending ability and they will now approve a $27K purchase.

Thing is if this continues, why would anyone want to upgrade from Green to Gold / Gold to Platinum ? I know the perks are different and become more exclusive but if this doesn't matter to you, then the ideal thing is just get a green card, continue to be a "non risk" as far as keeping a low balance or paying off charges as you accure them and it seems that you stay in their good graces.